Russian Missiles in Cuba vs. American Missiles in Poland.

August 20, 2008

Differences…discuss.

Oh wait there really are none.

h/t commenter w vincentz at Balloon Juice.


…and the neocons fan the embers…

August 20, 2008

…in the Caucuses. Uber NeoCon and PNAC member Fred Kagan on the News Hour tonight.

And I also think that we recognize the necessity of providing Georgia with defensive weapons systems that will protect — I’m sorry, Poland — that will protect Poland itself from possible Russian attacks of the sort that we’ve seen in Georgia. So that’s why I think we threw in the Patriot missile batteries, as well.

Hell give some to Georgia too, and if you order now, we’ll throw in a battery of Patriot Missiles free as our gift to you for shopping at US Weapons-R-US.

John Issacs responds:

but it certainly also gives the lie to the Bush administration’s case that it’s making for many months, many years, that this missile defense system that we’re going to deploy in Poland was directed at Iran and certainly not at Russia.

Well, I think what Condoleezza Rice said today, the Polish leaders, some American politicians have made it clear, this missile defense system fuels the Russian fears of what they’ve been saying all along, that the missile defense system is really directed at them.

Pretty much a big o’ duh in my book. The only country that has the capabilities to shoot missiles as us is Russia. Oh but what about Iran? Issacs goes on to say:

They’ve been trying to develop long-range missiles, but they have — there is no yet — there’s not yet any Iranian missile that can hit very long distances.

Then we have this exchange:

FREDERICK KAGAN: No, because the agreement is to develop and deploy the system. And there is an Iranian threat. The Iranians have just recently been testing Shahab 3 missiles that have a range of 2,000 kilometers, which is far in excess of what they need…

JOHN ISAACS: Testing, but not successfully.

FREDERICK KAGAN: Well, good heavens, shall we wait until they’re actually landing in Europe? I mean, the problem with the defensive system, as we’ve repeatedly made clear, is that it takes time to build and develop a system. And the time to be doing that is before your enemy actually has the capability.

First we have wingnut argument #1 here. ZOMG!!! They MIGHT be able to do something BAD in the future, so we must over respond NOW. Second, even Kagan says the system doesn’t work, so why are we poking a stick in the eye of the Russians by signing this agreement now?

Kagan gets then gets all Sandbox Commando on us:

But the key thing here is that the notion that this system is somehow directed at Russia is absolutely laughable. The geometry is wrong. The U.S. missile defense program, which has been showing the Russians virtually the blueprints and diagrams of this system all along, has shown very clearly that interceptors launched from this spot will not be able to hit Russian ICBMs that are launched from Central Asia and that fly very close to the North Pole.

Note: dickweed, we have missiles that can launch from the US and hit Russia, I’m sure then that we can launch a missile from Poland and hit whatever we want in Russia. Of course even John McCain is skeptical of the system as Isaac’s points out:

In fact, the two Armed Services Committee, the Senate and the House Armed Services Committee, including the committee on which Senator John McCain, the Republican almost nominee, presumptive nominee serves, voted to cut money and prevent any actual construction of the missile, until it’s built first and it’s tested first.

Although I’m fairly confident McCain will flip flop on that vote at his earliest connivence. Isaac then cuts to the quick of of the issue

So we’re talking about tests two years away. There’s no reason to sign an agreement today, except we wanted to respond to what happened in Georgia and we wanted to ratchet up the rhetoric and the moves.

And I think it’s very dangerous from what Russia is saying, and it’s very dangerous what the U.S. has been doing.

Russia is obviously a key to dealing with among others, Iran. Kagan dismisses the importance of a relationship with Russia in favor of wracheting up tensions and in the same breath gets the facts of the Georgia conflict wrong:

So I’m not — I’m far from convinced that Russia has been a particularly useful partner to begin with, but I would point out that we were not the ones who began this.

The Russians started all of this with an absolutely illegal invasion of Georgia….

No…Georgia started this, Russia undoubtedly over reacted, but Georgia threw the first punch. Kagan ends with this peach:

Now, I think it’s entirely appropriate in that context for us to make it clear that we intend to defend our NATO allies.

With WHAT FUCKING ARMY??? You dolt, you personally, you directly have absolutely decimated our armed forces with your needless invasion of Iraq. You. Fucked. Us. And as this country continues to poke Russia in the eye with a stick, what are we going to do when they punch back? What are we going to do when they pull the stick out of our hand? Nothing. We will do nothing, because we can do nothing, and you are a directly are responsible for this situation.

And bringing it back to the election, you know what? John McCain shows ever indication of continuing this reckless shoot first and talk later type of foreign policy. The world is very unstable at this moment. We don’t need someone with a hair trigger and a mouth to match.


Arming Poland.

August 20, 2008

Can anyone tell me why we are inflaming and already inflamed situation?

WARSAW, Poland — The United States will deploy anti-missile interceptors, upgrade Poland’s air defenses and modernize its military under two agreements signed Wednesday.

The agreements, signed by Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice and Polish Prime Minister Donald Tusk, are almost certain to increase the already high tensions between Russia and the West over the Russian invasion of Georgia.

Russia already has threatened to target Poland — perhaps even with nuclear weapons — for agreeing to host the launch site for 10 anti-missile interceptors that would be part of the American missile-defense system.

Really this is dangerous, not necessary and just plain stupid.